Ives: Three Places in New England kv30; Unanswered Question

Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com essential recording
These are the major works of Charles Ives (1874-1954), done in magnificent sound--and superlative performances--by Louis Slatkin and the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra. Three Places in New England--and perhaps this version--belongs in every collection of 20th-century American music. Also a treat here are The Unanswered Question and Central Park in the Dark. These aren't tone poems, quite. (It's hard to say what they are.) But Ives had the knack for providing even his most discordant works a tonal C major core. Usually. This would allow him--as in Symphony 3--to wander occasionally astray. Highly recommended. --Paul Cook

Amazon.com
This is a great Ives disc. You get: (1) his most popular "normal" symphony; (2) his most famous "radical" orchestral suite; (3) his most famous short piece; and (4) a bunch of interesting and little-known experimental pieces. In short, this disc is the perfect introduction to the music of Danbury- -Connecticut's greatest composer--a true American original. The last of the Three Places in New England is a short tone poem called The Housatonic at Stockbridge. It depicts the flow of the... read more

Ives: Three Places in New England kv30; Unanswered Question

Tracks:

From The Steeples And The Mountains
The Things Our Fathers Loved
The Pond (Remembrance)
Memories
Charlie Rutlage
The Circus Band
The "St. Gaudens" In Boston Common
Putnam's Camp
The Housatonic At Stockbridge
In Flanders Fields
They Are There!
Tom Sails Away
Fugue From Symphony No. 4
Psalm 100
Serenity
General William Booth Enters Into Heaven
The Unanswered Question

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Michael Tilson Thomas is an expert Ivesian. His 1970 recording debut was with Three Places in New England, still available from DG. Here, he redoes the work with the interpolation of a chorus singing the poem on which the last movement, "The Housatonic at Stockbridge," is based--unusual, not as effective as the orchestral version, but fascinating. Tilson Thomas cites Ives's desire for performers to creatively shape his music, and this disc vindicates his editorial liberties by making Ives's surprising music even more unpredictable. The choral contributions are fine, too, but baritone Thomas Hampson steals the show with seven songs that display his empathy with Ives's varied styles and the range of the composer's music, from cowboy songs to touching elegies. The way Hampson bellows a Brooklynese "Coytin" (for "Curtain") at the end of the first song of Memories is worth the price of purchase. Here's a disc to be entertained by, and moved as well. The recording was made at SFS concerts, and we're privileged to share the audience's experience. A must-have for Ivesians and the curious. --Dan Davis

Customer Reviews:

A superb evening of Ives, the best in decades.......2005-12-18

Tilson Thomas's PR team should put out a ocntract on me; I rarely express enthusiasm for him. So let me bow especially low to this superlative 1999 concert of Ives as viewed from his most melodic, least revolutionary perspective. This is Ives as recording angel of ice cream socials and Fourth of July parades.

In the Seventies MTT made good but not exceptioanl recordings of Ives's major orchestral works. Here he concentrates on songs and orchestral bits and pieces, except for the extended Three Places in New England, which is x-rayed with exceptionally detailed sonics. Thomas Hampson secures his position as the best singer of American songs with highly dramatized, unbuttoned singing--his Charlie Rutlage, a Texas-accented elegy for a fallen cowpoke, and the familiar General William Booth Enters Into Heaven are instant classics. Chorus and orchestra enter in the spirit of bumptious good cheer, and overall a good time was had by all, even though the crowd was sent home sobered up by the supernaturally melancholy Unanswered Question, which never fails to send a shiver through the listener.

Something of a disappointment.......2004-01-12

I was very much looking forward to the latest Ives recording from Michael Tilson Thomas, whose reputation as an Ives specialist began with his first recording of the Three Pieces in New England, made in 1970 when the conductor was only in his mid-20s. That this disc came some way from living up to my expectations is perhaps due to a combination of over-optimism, uneven performances and what I feel is a less-than-ideal selection of works.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the opening of the disc: a fine performance of the craggy, dissonant brass and percussion work From the Steeples and the Mountains, a highly impressive miniature which swells from its dissonant opening to a climax where sound seems to echo off in all directions. However, I'm less convinced with the rest of the purely-orchestral program: this reading of Ives' classic Three Pieces of New England lacks a little of the gracious flowing lines of Tilsom Thomas' earlier 1970 recording; in addition the experiment of adding a recently-found choral part to the finale merely demonstrates how right the composer was to leave it out. For his extract from the Fourth Symphony, Tilson Thomas chooses the slow movement fugue. I am guessing this choice was to emphasise the "accessible Ives", but this is by far the weakest movement of the work (it was in fact arranged from the first movement of Ives' then 20-year-old First String Quartet), and even a good performance--as here--can't entirely hide up its conservative, almost academic writing. That perennial Ives classic The Unanswered Question, which closes the work, is an infinitely finer work, but unfortunately Tilson Thomas cannot match the transcendence of his own--distinctly slower--Chicago Symphony Orchestra recording from 1986.

The rest of the disc concentrates on various incarnations of Ives' bewildering variety of songs, and as a result comes into partial competition with what is to my mind one of the finest Ives discs around--a recording of selections from the songs and the sets for orchestra with Susan Narucki, Sanford Sylvan and Music/Projects London under Richard Bernas (if you're an Ives fan and don't have this disc, I suggest you rectify this immediately). The songs are extremely uneven in quality--ranging from trivial kitsch to outright masterpieces--and their styles vary just as much.

Most of these songs appear here in orchestral garb, but in three of them Tilson Thomas accompanies Thomas Hampson's baritone on the piano himself. The salon song The Things our Fathers Loved is one of the examples of irreparable kitsch, but rather better is the bipartite Memories which switches from camp to sentimental at its midpoint. In contrast, Tom Sails Away is one of Ives' finest songs, but in this recording its effect is compromised by Tilson Thomas' rather insensitive playing in the piano part.

The Pond (Remembrance)--another of Ives' finest songs--appears here in a version for women's chorus and orchestra. This transcendental homage to the composer's father is in fact much more subtle and rhythmically complex than it appears at first, and it has appeared in a bewildering variety of versions (three of which appear on the Bernas disc mentioned earlier). Similarly restrained in means is John Adams' careful baritone-and-orchestra version of the touching song Serenity: it's well-judged and well-sung here, and Adams avoids the pitfalls that David Del Tredici walks into in his entirely unnecessary orchestration of In Flanders Fields.

By contrast, Charlie Rutlage is an absurdly over-the-top piece of cowboy kitsch that disintegrates into violent discords as the words describe Charlie's death: this voice-and-orchestra version isn't half as good as Sanford Sylvan's voice-and-piano reading on the Bernas disc. Similarly eccentric is The Circus Band, a bizarrely outrageous confection for chorus and orchestra (based on an early orchestral march) that lacks some of the lustre of similar Ives effects. The bizarre Ives is also at work They are There! This near-hysterial rant (not actually as militaristic as it sounds at first) is heard in a chorus-and-orchestral version that lacks something of the sheer outrageousness of Ives' own voice-and-piano recording (even though Tilson Thomas takes an effort to try to copy the style of that reading).

The chorus-and-organ setting of Psalm 100 ("Make a joyful noise unto the Lord") is an intriguing piece of writing that well merits its exposure here, though it can't match General William Booth Enters Into Heaven for sheer unbuttoned craziness. This setting of Vachel Lindsay's poem, heard here in a version for baritone, chorus and orchestra is one of Ives' most endearing creations: its remarkable mix of modernism, bizarre wit and sentimentality, topped off with the sudden introduction of a hymn tune at the climax, is typical of the composer at his best. Unfortunately, this performance misses out on the last edge of hysterical ecstasy that is so necessary for the work to have its full impact (in my opinion it's easier to bring off in the voice-and-piano version).

I realise I am perhaps being overcritical of this disc, but it seems to me that a disc by such a fine Ivesian as Tilson Thomas should be held to a very high standrd. Though I was personally disappointed by this recording, it may well appeal to those who know little of the composer: however, I fear that Ives specialists are likely to be underwhelmed.

a wonderful summary.......2002-12-21

Charles Ives has always been a puzzle to me. From time to time I have listened to his music with a complete lack of resolution. Did I actually like it? Is it just an American marketing phenomena? Would we hear as much of him if he were, say, an Australian composer? I am still totally uncertain, but I love this CD for its variety of styles, variety of forces and general good humour. If you are immediately dismissive of Ives, can I suggest you start with the two songs called 'Memories'? Have a listen to this CD with an open mind - you may not like it all - even most of it - but one thing is certain and that is that this is not run-of-the-mill music.

Ives is Ives.......2002-06-15

I grew up on movie soundtracks and scores from the likes of Bernard Herrmann, Dimitri Tiomkin, Alex North and others. We have lost many of these composers but not their music they have left us through the years. That's a gift to all of us. I have been slowly looking at "20th century" composers from the "classical" arena to enhance my listening pleasure and my nature or "quest" to always seek out music that I am certain I must have passed over. I discovered Charles Ives after reading up further on Aaron Copland and his foray into many diverse areas of musical composition. One door opens another. Ives' name and compositions seem to have come up frequently. So far Charles Ives' music doesn't have the melodic quality of Copland or many contemporaries yet it does seem to have roots resulting in American musical motifs very strangely orchestrated resulting in some twisted profoundness. What attracts me is how Ives' music almost seems as if it were composed for film. Ives is Ives as I have found out. I enjoy this recording. It is strange, contemplative and definitely esoteric. Abrupt turns abound but that is the strength of Ives.

The Mood of Time.......2002-06-15

This collection of Ives compositions is exceptional. This CD makes for very good listening. I play it when I am alone in the car. The pensive music realy captures the mood of time.

Ives: Symphony No. 3, Orchestral Set No. 1 ("Three Places in New England"), March III, The Unanswered Question, Central Park in the Dark, Fugue in Four Keys

Average customer rating:

just right
A fine representative set of Ives' orchestral music.

Ives: Symphony No. 3, Orchestral Set No. 1 ("Three Places in New England"), March III, The Unanswered Question, Central Park in the Dark, Fugue in Four Keys
Charles Ives , Leonard Slatkin , and Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra
Manufacturer: RCA
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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Ives: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 4/Hymns
Steve Reich: Music for 18 Musicians

ASIN: B000003FA7
Release Date: 1992-10-09

Tracks:

Three Places In New England: The 'St. Gaudens' In Boston Common
Three Places In New England: Putnam's Camp, Redding, Connecticut
Three Places In New England: The Housatonic At Stockbridge
March III With The Air ' Old Kentucky Home'
The Unanswered Question
Central Park In The Dark
Fugue in Four Keys On ' The Shining Shore'
Symphony No. 3 'The Camp Meeting': Old Folks Gatherin'
Symphony No. 3 'The Camp Meeting': Children's Day
Symphony No. 3 'The Camp Meeting': Communion

Amazon.com essential recording

These are the major works of Charles Ives (1874-1954), done in magnificent sound--and superlative performances--by Louis Slatkin and the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra. Three Places in New England--and perhaps this version--belongs in every collection of 20th-century American music. Also a treat here are The Unanswered Question and Central Park in the Dark. These aren't tone poems, quite. (It's hard to say what they are.) But Ives had the knack for providing even his most discordant works a tonal C major core. Usually. This would allow him--as in Symphony 3--to wander occasionally astray. Highly recommended. --Paul Cook

Amazon.com

This is a great Ives disc. You get: (1) his most popular "normal" symphony; (2) his most famous "radical" orchestral suite; (3) his most famous short piece; and (4) a bunch of interesting and little-known experimental pieces. In short, this disc is the perfect introduction to the music of Danbury- -Connecticut's greatest composer--a true American original. The last of the Three Places in New England is a short tone poem called The Housatonic at Stockbridge. It depicts the flow of the Housatonic River past a covered bridge and a village church, where the strains of a hymn tune seem to merge with the mist coming off the river. It's as hauntingly memorable as anything you'll ever hear. --David Hurwitz

Customer Reviews:

just right.......2006-10-23

There's something really all-American about the way Slatkin and the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra play Ives here. The very timbre of the orchestra is idiomatic; the Boston Symphony or the Philadelphia Orchestra, by contrast, have opulent, Old World sounds that don't suit these scores as well as the direct, no-nonsense, clean-cut, grassroots, Midwestern sort of sonority produced by the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra here. I mean it... it may sound doubtful as written on the page and it's difficult to put it into words, but you'll hear for yourself that St. Louis has got the right sort of sound for this music where other orchestras don't. Furthermore, Slatkin has a real knack for getting intimate, controlled, chamber music-type playing out of large orchestras and sprawling scores. This allows for some really interesting interpretations, and it only serves to enhance the sound of an orchestra already well suited to playing Ives. Add this one to your collection without delay.

A fine representative set of Ives' orchestral music........2001-08-28

The recording is excellent, the performances are as fine as any I can remember. If you have the Orpheus recording, you won't need this one -- and vice-verse -- as far as the two major works are concerned. The pieces are arranged well for a complete Ives concert on a single disc. Highly recommended, but I wish it were midprice like the Eastman disc on Mercury.

Average customer rating:

An "Orphic egg" laid

A Set of Pieces: Music by Charles Ives

Manufacturer: Polygram Records
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: B000001GLV
Release Date: 1994-07-19

Tracks:

Three Places in New England: The 'Saint-Gaudens' In Boston Common
Three Places in New England: Putnams' Camp, Redding, Connecticut
Three Places in New England: The Housatonic at Stockbridge
The Unanswered Question
A Set Of Pieces: In The Cage
A Set Of Pieces: In The Inn
A Set Of Pieces: In The Night
Symphony No.3 'The Camp Meeting': Old Folks Gatherin'
Symphony No.3 'The Camp Meeting': Children's Day
Symphony No.3 'The Camp Meeting': Communion
Set No.1: The See'r
Set No.1: A Lecture (Tolerance)
Set No.1: The Ruined River (The New River)
Set No.1: Like a Sick Eagle
Set No.1: Calcium Light Night
Set No.1: Allegretto Sombreoso

Customer Reviews:

An "Orphic egg" laid.......2005-12-17

Back in the '70s Decca put out a budget US label called "Orphic Egg." My title utilizes this as a pun for what Orpheus did with Ives's Set No. 1.

The person who advised Orpheus on this music did a really poor job. Never mind the HOWLER in the top Violin in an early-on measure in "The St. Gaudens" (A-sharp instead of A-natural -- WHOA!). I'm here to write about this version of Set No. 1: The See'r, A Lecture, The Ruined River, Like a Sick Eagle, Calcium Light Night, and Incantation.

First off I'll point out the most obvious blooper. The Solo horn part in Incantation is played in the wrong key! It is supposed to start on E-flat, but sounds a 5th lower on A-flat. The reason this happened is that the person who advised them didn't notice that in the score it says "actual sounds" above the Solo staff, but this note was omitted from the part (publisher's error). So the English Horn plays it as if it is a transposing part, and thus it sounds a 5th lower than it should be! All that needed to be done was to check the version for voice and piano -- but their advisor didn't bother to do that.

The versions of The See'r and Like a Sick Eagle are the ones made by Gunther Schuller for his Columbia LP. They're "all right" but Schuller based his scores solely on the old 1934 copyist scores that perpetuate significant if minor errors. This version of A Lecture is the one made by Gregg Smith for his second Columbia LP which also has minor errors and changes the Solo cornet to clarinet.

Now comes the true joke of the album (a sad joke poorly played on Orpheus): these versions of The Ruined River and Calcium Light Night are not just in critical error, at times they are just plain crazy! The score used for CLN is almost funny for me to listen to --- wrong rhythms, sometimes bizzare rhythms, especially in the solo cornet part, and a few completely incorrect parts for the instruments. Reading an Ives sketch can be deceiving, and one shouldn't always rely on alignment of one part against another, or hastily-sketched fragments of parts duplicated by a later addition, but this is what was done when this score was made by the group's advisor. It doesn't even sound, to my ears, like a march anymore, and this piece is supposed to represent the members of Psi Upsilon and Delta Kappa Epsilon marching across the Old Yale Campus initiating new members and singing uproariously. They could have used Ken Singleton's score, which is a good score and appears on Jim Sinclair's Koch CD, but I hear it's unavailable. They might have even used the now-discredited Henry Cowell "arrangement" and done better, but they didn't!

Now I say all this because I have some inside information. I was commissioned to do a critical Ives Society edition of this Set in the 1980s, and Ensemble Modern used that edition in their now (unfortunately) out-of-print EMI CD. One day I was called up by the person advising Orpheus and asked if I would send them my edition, in score and parts, because this person thought it would be "wonderful" to have these pieces fill out the CD (in other words, I was sweet-talked into providing these materials). I did so, at my own expense and without asking for any remuneration. I checked with Orpheus a few days later and they had received my materials. Within a few minutes I was called back by the person who had asked for the materials and was seriously cussed out for daring to call Orpheus on my own. I was a little stunned. I was even more stunned when this CD came out with this travesty of an edition on it! (I also had a good laugh over how truly awful it was!)

I wrote Orpheus telling them how they had been taken in (my first use of the "Orphic egg" metaphor) but they didn't seem to care. It's their misfortune that they put their trust in someone who didn't merit it.

The CD has a wonderful rendition of Symphony No. 3 and the Theater Orchestra Set, and the other two movements of "Three Places." But don't buy it for Set No. 1! You can do better with Richard Bernas's "When the Moon" CD (even though he was made to use Cowell's score fof Calcium Light Night).

Ives: Three Places in New England; Symphony no. 3; The Unanswered Question; A Set of Pieces; Set no. 1

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Ives: Three Places in New England; Symphony no. 3; The Unanswered Question; A Set of Pieces; Set no. 1

Manufacturer: Deutsche Grammophon
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: B000027DE8
Release Date: 1999-04-01

Tracks:

Three Places In New England: 1. The 'Saint-Gaudens' In Boston Common - Gilbert Kalish
Three Places In New England: 2. Putnam's Camp, Redding, Connecticut - Gilbert Kalish
Three Places In New England: 3. The Housatonic Stockbridge - Gilbert Kalish
The Unanswered Question - Orpheus CO
A Set Of Pieces: In The Cage - Gilbert Kalish
A Set Of Pieces: In The Inn - Gilbert Kalish
A Set Of Pieces: In The Night - Gilbert Kalish
Sym No.3 'The Camp Meeting': Old Folks Gatherin' - Orpheus CO
Sym No.3 'The Camp Meeting': Children's Day - Orpheus CO
Sym No.3 'The Camp Meeting': Communion - Orpheus CO
Set No.1: The See'r - Gilbert Kalish
Set No.1: A Lecture (Tolerance) - Orpheus CO
Set No.1: The Ruined River (The New River) - Gilbert Kalish
Set No.1: Like A Sick Eagle - Gilbert Kalish
Set No.1: Calcium Light Night - Gilbert Kalish
Set No.1: Allegretto Sombreoso - Gilbert Kalish