Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 8 [Import]

Track Listings

1. Germabigt, Mehr Bewegt, Misterioso

2. Adagio

3. Scherzo

4. Finale

5. Allegro Moderato

6. Scherzo: Allegro Moderato

7. Adagio

8. Finale

Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 8, Music, Haitinik, Wiener Philharmoniker, Anton Bruckner, Bernard Haitinik, Classical

Average customer rating:

Maybe the best Bruckner 8 ...

Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 8
Anton Bruckner , and Bernard Haitink
Manufacturer: Decca/Universal
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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Bruckner: Symphonie No. 9

ASIN: B000069KIV
Release Date: 2002-05-31

Tracks:

Germabigt, Mehr Bewegt, Misterioso
Adagio
Scherzo
Finale
Allegro Moderato
Scherzo: Allegro Moderato
Adagio
Finale

Customer Reviews:

Maybe the best Bruckner 8 ..........2006-04-18

... at least to my taste, but it is certainly a worthy contender to those recordings which are generally considered to be the very best, for example Karajan, Giulini, Wand or Boulez (and many others).
Firstly, I would like to apologize for incompleteness of this review, because I would only like to say my thoughts on the recording of the Eighth Symphony - it used to be available by itself, but now only as a budget twofer, where you also get the Third Symphony (a wonderful recording as well, by the way).
The recorded sound for the Eighth is maybe typically 'Philips' with a warmly sympathetic but natural, not too expansive, crystal clear soundpicture, with just enough 'air' around the different instrument groups. The instruments are fairly directly recorded, but just right for being able to relish in that very typical disciplined, gorgeous and crisp sound of the Vienna Philharmonic, which on this specific recording is captured simply greatly.
Haitink takes ample time to let the music unfold in all its splendor, but at the same time there is a superb grip - at least to my amateur ears - on the structure. Well, one could only expect as much, with a conductor who had up to then been studying and performing this music for about thirty years!
If you also love this recording by Bernard Haitink, I would also like to recommend you listen to Haitinks earlier, 1981 (digital) recording of the same work with the Concertgebouw Orchestra. (Speeds for the four parts in this 1981 recording are: 16:03 / 16:11 / 29:14 / 23:53, making this 1981 recording just slighly slower overall, but only because of the especially expansive adagio.) This magnificent 1981 recording (Haas-edition as well) stands between his first studio recording (1969) and his third studio recording, under review here. This 1981 'Eighth' is taken rather 'spacious' and 'wide', very noble, with grand over-arching legato. The playing of the Concertgebouworkest is as mellifluous as ever. The same holds true for the recording under review here, but here, as a plus, the conducting is even more disciplined and the playing even more 'poised' - with a little more 'bite', maybe, but this may be result of the character (?) of the orchestra itself. Combined with a somewhat more direct recording of instruments, this makes this Vienna Philharmonic-recording IMHO well-nigh-perfect to the ears of this particular listener.

So this (Vienna) recording offers us the best of both worlds, or three worlds actually, recapitulating: firstly, gorgeous playing and recorded sound (some of the best I have ever heard in this format); secondly, the music is allowed to bloom in moderately expansive speeds; and thirdly, a clear sense of structure, especially in the Adagio (27:26 min). All three make this a truly gripping acount of Bruckner's masterpiece.

Haitink really seems to love Bruckner and he truly makes this music sing in the most eloquent and naturally flowing way; sensitive to every nuance and with feeling, but at the same time nicely disciplined. This is as true for this Concertgebouw recording as for this (14 year) later, even more superb recording with the Vienna Philharmonic. Anyhow, this recording (like the Concertgebouw recording), which displays this music with such caressing, warm sympathy and with such nobility, is IMHO essential hearing.

Average customer rating:

Celibidache's most 'normal' Bruckner is full of inspiration
Celibidache: Great Bruckner conductor, or cult figure?
Karaoke with Celi

Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3-5, 7-9

Manufacturer: Deutsche Grammophon
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: B0002IRY0O
Release Date: 2004-11-09

Customer Reviews:

Celibidache's most 'normal' Bruckner is full of inspiration.......2006-09-02

If you are used to thinking of Celibidache as an enigmatic, glacially slow conductor, this box of Bruckner performances from DG will be an eye-opener. It dates from the Seventies, before the maestro's more eccentric inclinations set in completely--his tempos are anywhere from 2 to almost 10 min. faster in various movements. (In some places, such as the finael of Sym. #7, the tempo may actually be faster than the norm.) The Stockholm and Stuttgart orchestras aren't as proficient as his own Munich ensemble, but they sound fine, as does DG's good FM radio sound.

Measuring Celi by the metronome isn't fair. The real question is what he offers musically, and there's no doubt that he is closely attuned to Bruckner. Long passages of sound are carved like marble; the atomosphere is full of mystery and poetry; sonorities are built on a massive scale and then alternate with intervals of lovely serenity. This is music made alive on the page. Compared to Karajan, another great Brucknerian, Celibidache is more organic and relaxed. One can quibble with things here and there, but then an entire stretch of music, such as the opening of Sym. #3, will emerge as a magnificent whole.

I'm not sure I can erect an altar to Celibidache's entire career, but these Bruckner recordings seem great to me.

Celibidache: Great Bruckner conductor, or cult figure?.......2005-02-19

The first time I ever heard the name Celibidache was back in the late '80's when he was on tour with the Munich Philharmonic. The word among my Bruckner fan friends was that he was on the road with a Bruckner Fourth like no other. Hmmmm...how different could it be? I didn't get to go to the performance while he was in town, but word was that it was one of those things you either loved or hated.

The next time I encountered him was while sitting around one night with some Bruckner (and Furtwangler) fans watching "music videos"...but not exactly the MTV or VH1 kind. I saw two videos of Celibidache. The first clip was of a dashing young matinee-idol looking Celibidache, with a wild swath of hair hanging down on his forehead, conducting the BPO in a fiery reading of Beethoven's Egmont Overture. In the second video, shot about two generations after the first, a kindly, grandfatherly looking, Celibidache, in a cozy sweater, conducted a superbly controlled Munich Philharmonic from a stool, in an impossibly expansive and majestic reading of the first movement of the Bruckner Eighth (this was from the Sony release of the entire Eighth). The latter performance was so slow, when compared with any other recording you've ever heard, that it had no business sounding so good, but somehow it did.

The Celibidache phenomenon, and his superbly drilled Munich Philharmonic, must've created a bit of a stir, for, on the heels of Sony's video releases of Celibidache's performances of Bruckner's Symphonies #6-8, EMI embarked on a project of releasing recordings of Bruckner's Symphonies #3-9, as well as recordings of works by other composers. These recordings were released in 1999, three years after the conductor's death. At that time I was what you could call a "Bruckner Ninth completist," and I already owned one of his recordings of the Bruckner Ninth: one of those "quirky Italian" labels that speicalizes in poorly packaged--and often premium-priced--pressings of "historical recordings" had released a few Celibidache live recordings of Bruckner symphonies from the '70's and '80's (it's pretty common knowledge that the enigmatic conductor, like Furtwangler whom he had succeeded as director of the BPO in 1945, hated making studio recordings).

This two-disc set turned out to be a good indicator of the enigma that was Celibidache. The second disc was a recording of the Ninth Symphony with the MPO from 1981. It was a very good performance, and I felt fortunate to have it in my collection, because it was also a good quality live recording; and it was with Munich (most of his live recordings from that period were with the RSO Stuttgart, a good orchestra but not as good as the MPO). The Ninth was a bit on the slow side, and there were moments when I was a bit too aware of the conductor caressing a phrase, but overall it was a worthy addition to the collection.

The accompanying recording of the Fourth with the RSO Stuttgart from 1973 was another story. Everything was fine through the first three (and three-quarters) movements. It was a spacious account of the fourth, but no slower than, say, Bohm's 1973 VPO recording. But, then, toward the end of the finale something happened: a very self-conscious slowing down of the coda--which is plenty majestic enough w/o an unnatural slowing down. This slowing progressed until the beat was subdivided, the violins sounded like they were literally "sawing away" on their ostinatos, and the orchestra almost ground to a screeching halt before the final chord mercifully stopped sounding. At that point, I almost made a frisbee out of the disc, but I decided it still made a good conversation piece (or at least a coaster). It was the most bizarre thing I had ever heard in a recording of "classical" music. In retrospect, the interesting thing is that such extremely protracted tempos are more often associated with the performances of his last fifteen years, but this recording was made 23 years before his death: it somewhat staggers the Brucknerian imagination to think that 20 years later he made a recording of the Fourth with Munich in which the Finale was actually more than five minutes longer, actually breaking the half-hour mark, presumably for the first and last time in the annals of this work.

[I've been trying to write shorter reviews, but apparently that's not going to happen here.]

When the EMI recordings came out, I was much too curious about the Eighth and Ninth to allow the bizarre timings to scare me away: when I first picked up the Eighth, I thought that the timings of the last two movements--35:04 and 32:08, respectively--must've been misprints...the finale was actually more than 12 minutes--or 60%--longer than Jochum's terse 1964 BPO recording! But I still found things to admire in these recordings, none the least of which was the superbly controlled and patient playing of the orchestra, all of whom I thought must've been practically "Zen masters" (and endurance athletes), to play a Bruckner Eighth that was longer than many recordings of the six-movement Mahler Third!

[Really, my intent is NOT to write a review that is the verbal equivalent of a late Celibidache Bruckner recording!]

So, when DG came out with their Celibidache recordings of Bruckner's Symphonies #3-5&7-9, at first released in two absurdly expensive boxed sets--and the people who purchased those have every right to be perturbed at DG eventually releasing them in a much more reasonably-priced single box--I looked at the set with a certain suspicious curiousity. Could these be anything more than shabby old radio recordings, released to "coat-tail" the EMI and Sony releases, and the conductor's death?

Well, the answer is a defininte, yes, they are much more than that. Any set of Celibidache Bruckner recordings is bound to be a bit of a "mixed bag," and, as the other reviewer pointed out, this set is...but there is much more to admire and enjoy here than I expected. I smiled at the other reviewer's apt comment about the "Karaoke Third;" and while the Fourth is not as annoying as the Third, in this respect, their is still more "Sing along with Serge" than I can take, esp. in the finale. It is one of my pet peeves when conductors hum and stomp their way through a performance (you can probably imagine that I don't much care for Glenn Gould's recordings): one of the Bruckner Ninths that I dumped from my "completist days" was by a conductor named Vladimir Delman, who didn't shut up for more than five seconds during the entire recording (and it wasn't even a very good Ninth even w/o the vocal accompaniment)!
In the case of this Celibidache Fourth, it's too bad about the vocalizing, because the tempo of the finale's coda is much more tolerable than the '73 Stuttgart one I described above.

But, fear not, for the Fifth, Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth, are all very good, and the recording quality exceeded my expectations, including strong, clear horns, so important in Bruckner; and a full, warm, bass resonance. Also, Celibidache is definitely a conductor who understands the importance of good strong timpani in Bruckner, and the timpani are very well recorded throughout this set, nearly as thunderous as Karajan's, in the finale of the Fifth (HvK used an extra set of timpani in the Fifth). Yes, the tempos are on the slow side, but during this period--which I'm now thinking was a vintage period for Celibidache's Bruckner--they had not become too extreme yet. He manages to pull off the most spacious Fifth Symphony slow movement I've ever heard, with surprising success (even if this almost climax-less movement begins to get a bit monotonous, by the end; but then again, brisker readings of this movement can get a bit tedious, too).

This was the first Celibidache Bruckner Seventh I've ever heard, and it was a very pleasant surprise, with a beautiful, but not excessively slow, adagio; and a nice, flowing, first movement. It was a pleasant surprise to hear him use a nice flowing tempo for the lovely "enchanted forest" theme (as I call it) that flows out of the majestic intro, and launches the movement proper.

The Eighth was also very satisfying, and certainly no slower than Gunter Wand's final--and excellent--recording of the work; or Karajan's 1957 recording, for that matter.

I still prefer Celibidache's aforementioned 1981 MPO recording of the Ninth, which is noticeably more expanisve in the outer movements than the recording included in the DG set; but both performances are evidence that Celibidache was very much in touch with the rarefied spiritual world of this (my favorite) symphony.

If you are a Bruckner fanatic (or a "Brucknerd," as I have sometimes called us), esp. one who likes Celibidache, who has been putting off buying this set, you need hesitate no more. Was Celibidache one of the Great Bruckner Conductors, or just an enigmatic pheonom with a cult following? I feel that this set reveals him as a great Bruckner conductor, even if like many of us, he went on to get a bit "eccentric" in his later years.

Karaoke with Celi.......2005-01-21

This set is a mixed bag. It contains Celibidache's live Bruckner recordings with SWR Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra (symphonies 3,5,7, 8 and 9) and Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra (the 4th). As is well known, Celi hated studio recordings.

Celi was a great Bruckner conductor, no doubt about that, although he earned this reputation late in his career. But it is indeed painful to hear his karaoke behavior: Celi yells often loudly while conducting, frequently just before a climax, sometimes even with more lungpower than the brass, it seems. Worse than having a coughing audience, I think! This is especially the case in the third symphony, but his characteristic shouts are audible elsewhere too. But don't get me wrong: the interpretations are very fine. And the third, fourth and seventh are among the best available.

Thus these recordings are welcome additions to the Bruckner catalogue. Comparing this bargain DG collector's edition set with the very expensive EMI set, where Celi is conducting Munich Philharmonic, the speeds are swifter. This is especially the case with the eight symphony, which Celi takes extremely slow in Munich. Here are the differences for each movement:

EMI: 20'56 ; 16'05 ; 35'04 ; 32'08

DG : 16'16 ; 13'52 ; 27'08 ; 26'04

I think the earlier DG account in the present set is preferable. The Munich take is too slow, even if the attention to detail is remarkable. Similar judgements are applicable for the rest of the set as well, though the time differences are less dramatic. For example, the account of the fourth is ten minutes faster here. Comparing with Jochum, however, all Celi's speeds are very slow throughout the whole set.

SWR Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra and Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra are not famous for their Bruckner playing. In this respect, they do not outshine, say, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, Staatskapelle Dresden, and Concertgebouw. But minor orchestras can surprise with a good conductor, as they do here.

Sound is good but not in upper demonstration class.

Average customer rating:

wild abandon in the scherzo of no.4
Mastery of an idiom.

Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3-5 (Box Set)

Manufacturer: Deutsche Grammophon
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: B00004T763
Release Date: 2001-01-23

Tracks:

1. Mehr Langsam. Misterioso
2. Adagio, Bewegt, Quasi Andante
3. Ziemlich Schnell
4. Allegro

Tracks:

1. Bewegt, Nicht Zu Schnell
2. Andante Quasi Allegretto
3. Scherzo. Bewegt - Trio. Nicht Zu Schnell. Keinesfalls Schleppend
4. Finale. Bewegt, Doch Nicht Zu Schnell

Tracks:

Introduction. Adagio - Allegro
2. Adagio. Sehr Langsam
3. Scherzo. Molto Vivace - Trio. Im Gleichen Tempo

Tracks:

Finale. Adagio - Allegro Moderato
1. Allegro Con Spirito
2. Andante
3. Menuetto - Trio
4. Finale. Presto

Tracks:

Finale. Adagio
4. Finale (Continued/Fortsetzung/Suite)

Amazon.com

Celibidache's mysticism and grand rhetorical style are suited to Bruckner's grandiose symphonies. These 1969-1981 performances of the "middle" symphonies are companions to another DG box of the late symphonies. Both sets compete with Celibidache's later versions with the superior Munich Philharmonic, recorded by EMI in more spacious, detailed sound. But Celibidache's many admirers will want both, for while the EMI set amply demonstrates the conductor's often wayward tempos and obsession with bringing out details others glide over, the earlier Celibidache on these discs is much more straightforward. His Munich performances stressed the ultimate in orchestral transparency and detail; these earlier ones are more flowing and strive for thicker orchestral sound and softer accents. But they still bear the Celibidache stamp--slower and grander than most Bruckner performances, if less idiosyncratic. DG offers an interesting filler with a straightforward account of Mozart's Haffner Symphony and a bonus rehearsal disc documenting Celibidache's perfectionist strivings. --Dan Davis

Customer Reviews:

wild abandon in the scherzo of no.4.......2005-06-25

I've obtained no.4 separate from the entire collection- where Celi conducts the Swedish Radio Symphony orchestra.
This performance contradicts the usual sterotypes assosciated with this great conductor.The Scherzo is taken at a frenetic pace.Surely,it has never been faster! The energy is irresistable and the other movements are done with a similar sense of verve and rhythmic energy.Herbert Von Karjian's EMI version is alarmingly tentative in the 2nd subject group of the ist movement where the celibidace has a rustic gait which ensures that the tension doesn't drop.

Mastery of an idiom........2001-05-31

The DG cycle of Celibidache's Bruckner is a facinating one, and a relativly easy way into the sound world of Celibidache. Here you have the greatest conductor since maybe Mahler navigate the complex metaphysical romanticism of Bruckner with consumate ease. These CDs are a good preparation for the other-worldly deeply profound revalations of Celibidache's '80s, 90s concerts of Bruckner on EMI.

Average customer rating:

Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 1 - 9

Manufacturer: RCA
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: B0001TSWQE
Release Date: 2004-11-09

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Bruckner Symphonies Nos. 3 & 7

Manufacturer: Delta Music/LaserLight
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD
ASIN: B000TUBBQS

Product Description

Live Recording: Amsterdam. Concertgebouw, September 24 and 27, 1991. Symphony No. 3 in D minor - 1. Mehr langsam, misterioso 2. Adagio. Bewegt, quasi andante 3. Ziemlich schnell 4. Allegro. Symphony No. 7 in E - 1. Allegro moderato 2. Adagio 3. Scherzo 4. Finale

Average customer rating:

Its OK...

Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 8
Dohnanyi , and Cleveland Orchestra
Manufacturer: Decca
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

The Decca Records Store | Specialty Stores | Music
ASIN: B000026CFJ
Release Date: 1999-11-01

Customer Reviews:

Its OK..........2006-03-11

There nothing that I particulary disliked about it, but there are other recordings of these pieces that are much better, Celibidache and Solti realy stand out.

Average customer rating:

A rigid approach in dated sound
exposes more problems in interpreting Bruckner today
very interesting and reasonably priced too

Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 8

Manufacturer: Sony
ProductGroup: Music
Binding: Audio CD

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ASIN: B00000291L
Release Date: 1994-06-14

Tracks:

Symphonie No.3 D Minor: I. Mehr langsam, Misterioso
Symphonie No.3 D Minor: II. Adagio, bewegt, quasi andante
Symphonie No.3 D Minor: III. Ziemlich schnell -- Trio
Symphonie No.3 D Minor: IV. Allegro
Symphonie No.8 C Minor: I. Allegro moderato

Tracks:

Symphonie No.8 C Minor: II. Scherzo. Allegro moderato -- Trio. Langsam
Symphonie No.8 C Minor: III. Adagio. Feierlich langsam; doch nicht schleppend
Symphonie No.8 C Minor: IV. Finale. Feierlich, nicht schnell

Customer Reviews:

A rigid approach in dated sound.......2005-10-02

Szell belonged to the so-called Toscanini school of conducting that claimed to obey the letter of the score and demanded precision execution from the orchestra at the expense of flexibility, songfulness, and free expression. As such, he was an acclaimed maestro, given that no one could discipline an orchestra and get it to play more precisely than Szell.

Today most of his recordings have fallen into the bargain bin, as this one has. Bruckner asks for the very things Szell obliterates from the score--there's no nobility or spiritual yearning here. The orchestra plays with razor sharpness (something Bruckner doesn't really need) and the sonics are thin and wiry. As an example of what Szell wanted to do with tis composer, I guess this is a valuable document, but for no other reason.

exposes more problems in interpreting Bruckner today.......2000-08-17

It becomes exceedingly difficult to appraise Bruckner Symphonies,especially with early inaugural recordings of his massive Symphonies,for which this is one. The signification of genius I suspect is that no one reading exhausts the content the gestural potentialities of a work, especially within the large philosophic dimensions of a symphony.

Bruckner was a strongly constitituted man in the final unfolding of music's history,despite his outward awkward appearances and oefish demeanor. He throughout his life frequently solicited advisorship from talentless individuals and provinicially minded musicians and music scholars who had wrongfully revised his work,orchestrations and structural revisions.

Szell here adopts a centrist reading of Bruckner,meaning the phrases and moments of the various movements fall out fairly predictably, there is no large telescoping of thought. We find that today actually in Boulez's fairly recent reading of the Eighth,where the overall timbre is conceived as one large sonic canvas,a labyrinth to be entered. Since I've heard the Boulez I've grown to dislike all these past Bruckner readings. The overbearing end-of-the-world-like brass proclamations now is far too much,it is a marring of the overall structure,and it taxes the art of listening unnecessarily. Boulez does solicit from Vienna Philarmonic a massive sound due to the acoustics from the St.Florian Cathedral where it was recorded. (Incidentally where Bruckner was employed initially as organist.)

The Third Symphony scours D-minor wonderfully,you can't help but reflect on the utter simplicity,banal to the point of the sublime of chordal statements,it renders a deeply dark sense easily disrupted and subverted by Bruckner's structural sense of posing the large orchestral sound(usually brass and tympani) against the miniscule,usually solo voices,string tremoli,horn solos. Robert Simpson informs us that Bruckner had totally reconceived the concept of symphonic motion, the relation of its movements is not the Beethovenian,classic sense of impacted and pent-up momentum that becomes released at some future emotive point. With Bruckner each movement stands fairly by itself,like immovable boulders,or underground faults that take an infinity when pinned and thrusted against its own techtonic plates. Bruckner's symphonic movements motion and move in a similar way.

Szell's Eighth is again a centrist reading as well, but here the telescoping works against him and Cleveland for now the Eighth,a much more mature work than the Third had engaged larger phrases,with intermittent rests,so exceedingly the music unfolds over greater durational frames and lengths,and Szell I think misunderstands this for the music feels overly rushed especially in the opening moments of the first movement.

very interesting and reasonably priced too.......2000-07-10

These performances of the Bruckner 3rd and 8th were originally recorded in 1966 and 1969, respectively, at a time when George Szell's relationship with the Cleveland Orchestra was near its peak. As per my recollection of the detailed documentation accompanying this recording, the conductor chose the 1889 Nowak edition of the 3rd and made some personal modifications to the Nowak edition of the 8th, so that the playing time of the latter comes somewhere between the Nowak and the Haas. For those who fine the Nowak too short and the Haas too long, the "Szell" edition might be an ideal compromise. At the very least it makes for a very enterprising and original performance.

Not surprisingly, these performances are as biting and as incisive as Szell's recordings of Wagner, Mahler and Strauss. They are arguably at the opposite end of the interpretive spectrum as Bruno Walter - which is not to say any better or worse, just different. For those who might find Walter's approach too relaxed, or Jochum's too sentimental - although I do not - Szell might be a very good alternative. In these performances, Bruckner's dynamic markings are taken very literally and the effect is very arresting. The Cleveland Orchestra gives Szell everything he asks for. The 3rd had considerable power and nobility, an enjoyable performance, and the 8th was very interesting too. The tolling rhythm of the Scherzo was more prominent than usual and the finale was indeed very martial sounding. The great adagio was perhaps not as exalted and spiritual as some other performances - such as the famous Karajan record with the VPO - but it still was very fine, and certainly did not drag for a moment.

The total playing time for the 2 CDs was very substantial and at budget price this is a very fine account. My only reservation was that the recording quality did not properly capture the amplitude and sonority of the orchestra and was a little too closely balanced. In this price range there are other recordings with better sound, and some of Szell's other performances are also better in this respect. Overall, it remains a fine recommendation.

Track Listings: